{"id":28716,"date":"2024-10-02T13:42:38","date_gmt":"2024-10-02T12:42:38","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/?p=28716"},"modified":"2024-10-02T18:50:34","modified_gmt":"2024-10-02T17:50:34","slug":"diferenta-dintre-demisie-demitere-si-acordul-partilor","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/?p=28716","title":{"rendered":"Diferen\u021ba dintre demisie, demitere \u0219i acordul p\u0103r\u021bilor"},"content":{"rendered":"<div id=\"fb-root\"><\/div>\n\n<p>E relativ la discu\u021bia cu privire la doamna sys admin de la Atos ( <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/search\/results\/all\/?fetchDeterministicClustersOnly=true&amp;heroEntityKey=urn%3Ali%3Afsd_profile%3AACoAACXXecEBoRLDT2U1F2nVubGDjdYsAxzUemM&amp;keywords=larisa%20sarbu&amp;origin=RICH_QUERY_SUGGESTION&amp;position=0&amp;searchId=09aa1862-1a4e-4836-807b-9cb10b2d3e87&amp;sid=%2CFQ&amp;spellCorrectionEnabled=false\">conform linkedin<\/a>)  de 8 ani , care s-a sinucis dup\u0103 ce, aparent, s-a \u00eencercat demiterea ei cu acordul ei. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1536\" height=\"1230\" data-attachment-id=\"28717\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/?attachment_id=28717#main\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/sysadmin-atos.jpg\" data-orig-size=\"1536,1230\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"sysadmin-atos\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"\" data-medium-file=\"https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/sysadmin-atos-480x384.jpg\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/sysadmin-atos.jpg\" src=\"https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/sysadmin-atos.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-28717\" srcset=\"https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/sysadmin-atos.jpg 1536w, https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/sysadmin-atos-480x384.jpg 480w, https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/sysadmin-atos-200x160.jpg 200w, https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/sysadmin-atos-768x615.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1536px) 100vw, 1536px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><br \/><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Nu-s psiholog \u0219i nu o s\u0103 discut aspectul sinuciderii, anume, \u00een ce m\u0103sur\u0103 compania, sau manageri\u021ba se fac culpabile, sau nu. Aspecte de psihologie \u0219i justi\u021bie. Ce \u0219tiu empiric , c\u00e2t \u0219i no\u021bional, este c\u0103 persoanele afectate de perioade de depresie \u0219i anxiozitate, sau cu un caracter depresiv pot g\u0103si motive pentru sinucidere pe care alte persoane, sau tot ele, \u00een perioade mai bune, nu le g\u0103sesc.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Acestea <em>ziind fise<\/em>, problema ( de care <a href=\"https:\/\/www.libertatea.ro\/stiri\/multinationala-a-carei-angajata-s-a-sinucis-la-timisoara-neaga-orice-fel-presiuni-asupra-femeii-raspunsul-meu-este-foarte-ferm-5028836\">Atos \u00eencearc\u0103 s\u0103 se disculpe, \u00een\u021beleg<\/a> ) e legat\u0103 de concedierea prin impunerea demisiei, un fel de acord al p\u0103r\u021bilor impus.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Iar pe asta vreau s-o discut, c\u0103 are efecte nocive reale, indiferent c\u0103 persoanele afectate sunt depresive sau nu, indiferent dac\u0103 se sinucid, sau nu. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/dorusupeala.ro\/coruptia-ucide-la-atos-romania-managerii-corporatiei-ajutati-de-sefa-itm-timis-au-premeditat-hartuirea-a-sute-de-angajati-si-au-provocat-sinuciderea-larisei-sarbu\/\">Doru \u0218upeal\u0103<\/a> a scris mai larg \u0219i mai tehnic problema pe cazul de fa\u021b\u0103, eu am o idee general\u0103.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u0218i pleac\u0103 de la faptul c\u0103 angaja\u021bii nu-\u0219i cunosc drepturile, \u00een general, iar \u00een particular, e vorba de faptul c\u0103 \u00een IT s-a cam eludat crearea de sindicate pentru c\u0103 s-a postulat c\u0103 \u00een IT se munce\u0219te \u00een condi\u021bii bune \u0219i, mai ales, pe salarii bune. Sunt sindicate pentru IT\u0219ti, nu \u0219tiu dac\u0103 la Atos, dac\u0103 exista unul, exista degeaba.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Pe mine m\u0103 intereseaz\u0103 problema \u00eentr-un sens mai simplu, la nivel de \u201d<em>\u0219coala vie\u021bi<\/em>\u201d edi\u021bia de buzunar. <br \/>Orice companie care o duce prost caut\u0103 s\u0103 se scuture de o parte din angaja\u021bi. Criteriile pe care se scutur\u0103 de ei, legal, ar trebui s\u0103 fie profesionale, faptic, pot fi legate de costuri ( salarii), alocarea pe proiecte \u0219i caracter uman &#8211; adic\u0103 persoanele dificile \u0219i costisitoare primele, indiferent de ce zice legea. <br \/>La asta contribuie \u0219i calitatea rela\u021biilor interumane la momentul respectiv. Dac\u0103 nu te \u00een\u021belegi bine cu managerul, ghinion.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Nu \u0219tiu care este situa\u021bia de fapt, \u00een cazul \u0103sta, \u0219i nu e relevant.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ce e relevant e c\u0103 pentru tine ca angajat, indiferent de nivelul de competen\u021b\u0103 \u0219i profesionalism pe care \u00eel ai sunt, \u00een principiu 4 modalit\u0103\u021bi de a ie\u0219i din orice companie. <br \/><\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Prima ( ordinea nu e important\u0103) e <strong> cu acordul p\u0103r\u021bilor <\/strong>. <\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>A doua e demiterea de c\u0103tre angajator, care poate s\u0103 fie trimiterea \u00een \u0219omaj, sau rezilierea contractului din diferite motive, cu respectarea clauzelor care se aplic\u0103 \u0219i legisla\u021biei muncii, sau abuziv &#8211; dar atunci e rost de f\u0103cut bani pe curul lor.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>A treia este demisia, act unilateral pe care il faci tu \u0219i care e cu respectarea preavizului, a clauzelor de demisie \u0219i a legisla\u021biei muncii din partea ta.  Dac\u0103 o cere angajatorul <strong> trebuie s\u0103 fie demitere, sau cu acordul p\u0103r\u021bilor*.<\/strong><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>A patra e s\u0103 mori  \u0219i nu intr\u0103 \u00een discu\u021bie, c\u0103 cine o alege pe asta nu mai e preocupat de ce poate c\u00e2\u0219tiga cine. <\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Ceea ce vrei, pardon , ceea ce TREBUIE ( e imperativ) s\u0103 evi\u021bi, ca angajat, este ca atunci c\u00e2nd \u00ee\u021bi dai demisia s\u0103 nu fie ideea ta \u0219i s\u0103 nu ai nimic de c\u00e2\u0219tigat. <strong>Dac\u0103 nu ai nimic de c\u00e2\u0219tigat de la schem\u0103<\/strong>, singura variant\u0103 acceptabil\u0103 este demiterea de c\u0103tre angajator &#8211; \u0219i te repliezi de acolo. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ce trebuie s\u0103 urm\u0103re\u0219ti e acordul p\u0103r\u021bilor &#8211; adic\u0103 s\u0103-\u021bi ias\u0103 \u0219i \u021bie ceva la schem\u0103.* Chiar dac\u0103 nu te-ai n\u0103scut nesim\u021bit, cheia e s\u0103 ignori orice norme de bun sim\u021b \u0219i conven\u021bii sociale profesionale ( c\u0103 ei le ignor\u0103 oricum ) care-s g\u00e2ndite fix ca s\u0103 te pun\u0103 \u00eentr-o pozi\u021bie inferioar\u0103, \u00eentr-o astfel de situa\u021bie. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Oric\u00e2t de incompetent ai fi, pielea pulii \u00een prefectur\u0103, sau oricum nu conteaz\u0103, c\u00e2nd  vine cineva s\u0103-\u021bi cear\u0103 s\u0103-\u021bi dai demisia, primul g\u00e2nd al t\u0103u trebuie s\u0103 fie \u201dc\u0103 altfel ce?\u201d. Po\u021bi chiar s\u0103-l vociferezi a\u0219a, dac\u0103 mai bine de at\u00e2t nu te duce mintea. E mai bine dec\u00e2t s\u0103 taci \u0219i s\u0103 accep\u021bi. Mult mai. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mai mult dec\u00e2t at\u00e2t, \u00een momentul \u00een care cineva \u00ee\u021bi propune asta, trebuie s\u0103 cam \u0219tii direc\u021bia \u0219i trebuie s\u0103 te preocupe 2 lucruri , cu prioritate. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>S\u0103-\u021bi asiguri viitorul, pentru c\u0103 jobul \u0103sta e de trecut &#8211; adic\u0103 \u00ee\u021bi cau\u021bi altceva.  Dup\u0103 p\u0103rerea mea trebuie s\u0103 faci asta din momentul \u00een care \u021bi se propune redresarea profesional\u0103, dar asta pentru c\u0103 n-am \u00eencredere \u00een oameni, fiecare avem agend\u0103 personal\u0103, iar o inten\u021bie e o inten\u021bie. <\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>S\u0103 te preocupi de resurse pentru a-\u021bi asigura viitorul, anume trebuie s\u0103 c\u00e2\u0219tigi de la angajatorul curent timp \u0219i bani. <\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p><br \/>Dac\u0103 e prea preten\u021bios ce-am scris mai sus, c\u00e2nd cineva \u00ee\u021bi sugereaz\u0103 c\u0103 \u201dtrebuie s\u0103 \u00ee\u021bi dai demisia\u201d, sub orice form\u0103, propunere sau impunere &#8211; trebuie s\u0103 \u0219tii c\u0103 doar tu po\u021bi decide asta, iar dac\u0103 nu e deja decizia ta, atunci asta se negociaz\u0103 \u0219i ce trebuie s\u0103 \u00eentrebi , sub orice form\u0103 te pricepi tu s\u0103 negociezi este \u201d<strong>mie ce-mi iese<\/strong>?\u201d. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>C\u0103 e clar, \u0103ia scap\u0103 de tine, dar \u021bie ce-\u021bi iese. <br \/>Amenin\u021b\u0103ri c\u0103 altfel nu \u0219tiu ce ? NU. <br \/><strong>\u00cenv\u0103\u021ba\u021bi-v\u0103 s\u0103 r\u0103spunde\u021bi la agresiune cu orice arme ave\u021bi la \u00eendem\u00e2n\u0103<\/strong>. <br \/><span style=\"text-decoration: underline;\">Dac\u0103 nu ai nimic mai bun<\/span>, po\u021bi s\u0103-i fu\u021bi un pumn \u00een muie \u0103luia care-\u021bi propune asta. N-o s\u0103 te ajute prea tare, o s\u0103 te \u00eencurce cel mai probabil, poate te \u0219i bate, sau te fute cineva \u00een cur pe la pu\u0219c\u0103rie,  dar oricum e un sfat mai bun dec\u00e2t s\u0103 accep\u021bi s\u0103-\u021bi dai demisia f\u0103r\u0103 s\u0103 prime\u0219ti nimic care s\u0103 te mul\u021bumeasc\u0103, dac\u0103 nu a fost decizia ta. #tupeudeborfa\u0219<br \/><br \/>Cunosc oameni foarte incompeten\u021bi care au  ob\u021binut  la cerere  luni de p\u0103suire, plat\u0103 certific\u0103ri \u0219i salarii compensatorii. Toate, nu la alegere. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>De ce \u0219i cum ? Pentru c\u0103 e mai ieftin pentru angajator s\u0103-\u021bi dea ceva dec\u00e2t s\u0103 nu-\u021bi dea nimic \u0219i s\u0103 se lupte cu tine \u0219i cu imaginea lui public\u0103. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sigur, cel mai ieftin e s\u0103 te prosteasc\u0103 ca pe fraieri, cum te proste\u0219te oricum s\u0103 te angajezi permanent pe m\u0103run\u021bi\u0219 oferindu-\u021bi iluzia faptului c\u0103 ai un job sigur. Toate sunt iluzii adic\u0103  minciuni. <br \/><em>Don&#8217;t hate the players, hate the game. Or hate them, it does not make any difference. <\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cum te pricepi s\u0103 negociezi e o discu\u021bie lung\u0103, dar s\u0103 accep\u021bi propunerea de a demisiona e efectiv cea mai proast\u0103 op\u021biune. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Aten\u021bie c\u0103 uneori se mascheaz\u0103 asta sub \u201ddac\u0103 accep\u021bi s\u0103 \u00ee\u021bi dai demisia, ce putem s\u0103 facem e s\u0103 nu spunem c\u0103 ai avut performan\u021be proaste (care performan\u021b\u0103 e reflec\u021bia unor rapoarte subiective cu criterii \u0219i evaluare stabilite unilateral sub un raport de for\u021be potrivnic), ci \u00ee\u021bi d\u0103m recomandare &#8211; C\u0102CAT \u00ceN PLOAIE. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Vorbele lor nu valoreaz\u0103 doi lei \u00een pozi\u021bia asta. \u00cen pozi\u021bia asta trebuie s\u0103 \u00ee\u021bi t\u00e2r\u0103\u0219ti coaiele pe barba lor \u0219i, dac\u0103 e s\u0103 pui problema \u00een felul \u0103sta complicitar, o pui \u201d<em>mai \u00eent\u00e2i imi face\u021bi voi recomandare unde vreau s\u0103 plec \u0219i DOAR DUP\u0102 ce m\u0103 angajeaz\u0103 \u0103ia \u00eemi dau eu demisia<\/em>\u201d . DOAR a\u0219a. Nu exist\u0103 altceva. E minimul. Eu a\u0219 zice asta + ni\u0219te salarii compensatorii pentru deranj, pentru c\u0103-s cotoarb\u0103 b\u0103tr\u00e2n\u0103. <br \/><br \/>Care vre\u021bi s\u0103 v\u0103 sinucide\u021bi, merge\u021bi la psiholog sau nu, alegerea voastr\u0103, dar dac\u0103 cineva \u00ee\u021bi propune s\u0103-\u021bi dai demisia, gestul reflex trebuie s\u0103 fie refuz \u0219i invita\u021bie la negocieri.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Indiferent ce vrei s\u0103 faci cu via\u021ba ta, chiar dac\u0103 vrei s\u0103 te sinucizi m\u00e2ine, am\u00e2ni, c\u0103 nu-\u021bi putreze\u0219te funia, p\u00e2n\u0103 \u00eei jupoi pe jego\u0219ii care-\u021bi propun demisia \u0219i abia dup\u0103 aia continui cu ce planuri mai ai. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Primi\u021bi sfaturi de genul \u0103sta de la life coaches pe bani &#8211; vi le spun eu gratis, c\u0103 nu merit\u0103 s\u0103 dai bani pe ceva ce ar trebui s\u0103 fie no\u021biuni de bun sim\u021b.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Motivul e simplu. Dac\u0103 \u021bi se propune s\u0103 \u00ee\u021bi dai tu demisia , angajatorul t\u0103u \u00eencearc\u0103 s\u0103-\u0219i u\u0219ureze lui munca \u0219i situa\u021bia. Dac\u0103 ar fi mai u\u0219or pentru el s\u0103 te demit\u0103 pe loc, ar face-o, n-ar avea nevoie de acordul t\u0103u pentru nimic. Te cheam\u0103 la discu\u021bie \u0219i \u00ee\u021bi pune \u00een bra\u021be decizia \u0219i cutia cu fi\u0219iere personale de pe One Drive. <br \/>Dac\u0103 sugereaz\u0103 c\u0103 trebuie s\u0103 faci tu ceva \u00een sensul \u0103sta, \u00eenseamn\u0103 c\u0103 pentru el e mai dificil &#8211; p\u0103i dac\u0103 e mai dificil, m\u0103car s\u0103 pl\u0103teasc\u0103 serviciul. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>E relativ la discu\u021bia cu privire la doamna sys admin de la Atos ( conform linkedin) de 8 ani , care s-a sinucis dup\u0103 ce,&hellip;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":11650,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[621,136,500],"tags":[6101],"class_list":["post-28716","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-articole","category-civilisation","category-self","tag-nu-accepta-sa-fii-demis"],"views":847,"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/thuglife.jpg","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p4Eq23-7ta","jetpack-related-posts":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/28716","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=28716"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/28716\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":28730,"href":"https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/28716\/revisions\/28730"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/11650"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=28716"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=28716"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/catalinx.ro\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=28716"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}